Curse

Zeegen · Jul 27, 2005, 10:04 PM // 22:04

/ Signed

The merchant system in this game is screwed, so they should at least allow for everyone to have the opportunity to make the ungodly amount of money needed in order to have the better equipment.

Angryhob0z · Jul 27, 2005, 10:15 PM // 22:15

you know im adding to the problem by saying this, but hopefully it will fix more than it hurts

BUT IF YOU ARENT SIGNING DONT POST!

this is a petition! that mean people that agree with the the reason the petition was started will sign it and be happy about it

people that dont agree with the petition say no i dont want to sign your stupid petition. but in this forum that could get you in trouble!

so, from now on if you dont sign the petition or just want to call everyone stupid for thinking that this petition needs to be put into effect, kindly hit your back button until you are in sardelac sanitarium please

thanks

heist23 · Jul 27, 2005, 10:34 PM // 22:34

/signed

it annoys me to see that people are selling max storm bows for 90k.......that's ridiculous. no one except for the old(er) players has that kind of money.

riatha_hawke · Jul 27, 2005, 11:14 PM // 23:14

/signed

Thanas · Jul 28, 2005, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by the bloodthirst

i dont know why some ppl are so against ppl farming. Farming doesnt hurt you or anyone else. the fact that Anet is nerfing it is ridiculous. Sure you can find rare items in groups. I never get them though because they are always reserved for other players. Dont direct this game totally to pvp. This is a mmorpg if i am not mistaken. it is a role playing game. i should be able to play the game how i want to play it not how Anet wants me to play it. give us the farming spots back. i dont know much of how to farm in this game considering that i am fairly new. But i know what the meaning is and i say if you nerf it then this game is no longer an rpg.

Read the posts and you will see why people are against it. If you can't be bothered don't post.

Thanas · Jul 28, 2005, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commodore_Mcawesome

Sorry for the length of this, but I just have to say my peace.

Lets look at a situation here, it should look pretty familiar:

1. People farm for items and money and get plenty of both
2. ANet puts a stop to farming
3. People have plenty of items and money already, so everything's cool.
4. New people come and have neither of these things.
5. New people can't farm and thus stay poor.
6. Old people trade items amongst themselves for ungodly prices because they are the only one's that can afford it and thus stay more or less rich.

So the new people are staying poor and the old are staying rich. Boy oh boy, it looks like we've created an economic aristocracy, and a static market to boot!

Solutions:

1. Make everyone rich (allow farming)
2. Make everyone poor (gold sinks, or some such method)
3. Provide the means to allow people to become either rich or poor by their own means. (Farming and Gold Sinks respectively)

And don't TALK to me about going to the Hall of Campers for money. I don't much enjoy sitting and spamming " Protection Monk LFG, and no I don't have TS or Ventrilo because it makes me lag since I'm on 56k. As such, please only invite me if you're a PUG that has no idea how to PvP and will never see the Hall in their lifetime. " Or maybe I could just go with my guild! Who never has anyone on at any time! And even if I could get them together, and even if we COULD somehow beat all the other teams (that's a big if, mind you), then I'm guaranteed to walk out of there with a sigil right? Don't make me laugh...

As for those saying that farmers aren't accepting any of the genius ideas that have been presented in this thread, maybe it's because these don't actually WORK, more than we're all just stubborn and believe farming is the only thing that will redeem us. If you think that getting money is so simple, then would you care to explain the 4-5 threads per day in just about every GW related forum that contains some new guy trying to make some money so he can afford his armor?! Yeah, you're right, we're all just too lazy too go out and make money without exploiting the game by killing monsters for it.

/signed

These are poor solutions and the intial conditions are also incorrect. These solutions have already been proposed. They solve nothing and only propogate the problem. Excessive farming is not the way forward and neither will it redeem us. It is against game design and plays havoc with the economy.

Thanas · Jul 28, 2005, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angryhob0z

you know im adding to the problem by saying this, but hopefully it will fix more than it hurts

BUT IF YOU ARENT SIGNING DONT POST!

this is a petition! that mean people that agree with the the reason the petition was started will sign it and be happy about it

people that dont agree with the petition say no i dont want to sign your stupid petition. but in this forum that could get you in trouble!

so, from now on if you dont sign the petition or just want to call everyone stupid for thinking that this petition needs to be put into effect, kindly hit your back button until you are in sardelac sanitarium please

thanks

I have already said this once but I have a right to day I don't agree with this. If I were asked in the street to sign a petition and didn't agree I'd say no and possibly tell them why. Why can't I do the same here. Plus I'll think you'll find this is the biggest nerfing thread around. So sorry, but I'll keep posting here!

Thanas · Jul 28, 2005, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by heist23

/signed

it annoys me to see that people are selling max storm bows for 90k.......that's ridiculous. no one except for the old(er) players has that kind of money.

No just the excessive farmers who you want to bring back to ruin the economy and increase the wealth divide. Good thinking Batman. Does no no one think of consequences here. Why does everyone think in the short term?

PieXags · Jul 28, 2005, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Well you're right, it's the biggest nerfing thread around. And I'm also happy to say it's got many more /signed posts than "I disagree" posts.

And Thanas, you've never really...explained any of your statements, it's just "no that won't work" or "No that's incorrect" or "No actually this is what is supposed to happen", but...your word isn't final, it's all just opinions of yours, why you seem to think everything you say is fact is...beyond me. Also, Gaile's post in this thread goes against some of what you said. She said they've nothing against an honest farmer, which means they AREN'T trying to "get rid of farming" because as she's implied by that statement, farming in itself...doesn't hurt people, because ANYONE can do it. The way things are now, not anyone can do it, it's just a portion of the community that can make money by either running people or selling off sigils or something of the sort. Also explain to me what the problem is if they were to bring drops back up (thus allowing everyone the ability to farm and collect gold at a decent rate) while still adding more gold sinks? Makes perfect sense to me, back when I'd farm every day working towards some 60k armor or something I'd have a decent amount of money for a while, then I'd spend it in one of the many gold sinks available and lose the majority of it, in which case I'd just raise the money again over time. I was able to help out guild mates if they ever needed money, I could help out with weapons, I could actually trade weapons with other players, and it wasn't so important to have a mighty awesome weapon because many people were able to get them, and even with that you still had your 15k/fissure armors to get, along with more rare/different looking weapons like storm bows to go get, it was goin' pretty good for just about everyone, I didn't hear near the amount of people in my guild asking for money or materials or a decent weapon, because people were able to get such things just by playing the game, and they could farm if they wanted more. It worked out just fine with the amount of gold sinks we had.

There was some inflation at first, with runes, but the rune trader put a stop to that, and in fact if drops were higher prices would decrease as a whole because things wouldn't be as rare. (Or at least, it would be like they decreased because more people could afford them.)

Thanas, obviously, and Gaile said it herself, they're going through OTHER measures to try and stop botters, and they've told us they have nothing against farmers. And since the devs don't have anything against farmers, they're just trying to take care of bots, I'm going to have to say I trust the devs statements to be fact... a little more than yours. Gaile said to wait and see future updates and see if it improves the situation like they're going about things a better way, and that's what I'm going to do.

I'd provide further...counter-points to your statements, Thanas...but there wasn't really a point made in any of your statements, so there's nothing to disprove really.

Vexx · Jul 28, 2005, 01:02 AM // 01:02

/signed

chaos dragoon · Jul 28, 2005, 01:59 AM // 01:59

/signed

i started farming a week b4 the good spots i farmed at got nerfed and i got mad when they nerfed my spots.how am a supposed to afford granite armor now?

John Waffletord · Jul 28, 2005, 02:13 AM // 02:13

/signed

Melkor of ZoSo · Jul 28, 2005, 03:26 AM // 03:26

You know I thought of something... ANet can't seem to make up thier minds on whether or not they want us dealing with thier Merchants or not...

They say we should buy and sell from the Merchants, but they give us crappy prices when we try to sell.... But whenever we start to buy stuff, their supply runs low and we all of a sudden can't afford the stuff without farming. If we all buy from eachother then, the Merchant prices should go down, since they dont have all the supply. But where do we get money to buy from eachother? Selling drops/runes/weapons to Merchants? Is THAT where we are suposed to get money to buy Ecto?

Bottom line, the more we buy from Merchants, the higher thier prices get.
The more we sell to Merchants, the less pwerful we get.

????

heist23 · Jul 28, 2005, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanas

No just the excessive farmers who you want to bring back to ruin the economy and increase the wealth divide. Good thinking Batman. Does no no one think of consequences here. Why does everyone think in the short term?

ruin the economy? if more storm bows were found, the overall price would eventually go down. if more runes were found (and the traders actually gave you your money's worth) then the rune prices would go down. if people sold to the traders, the traders would sell for less, right? and if no one bought anything from the traders, the prices would fall, right?

i'm probably not making any sense or just not making an intelligent argument. probably cause i'm so tired.

Angryhob0z · Jul 28, 2005, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanas

I have already said this once but I have a right to day I don't agree with this. If I were asked in the street to sign a petition and didn't agree I'd say no and possibly tell them why. Why can't I do the same here. Plus I'll think you'll find this is the biggest nerfing thread around. So sorry, but I'll keep posting here!

well despite what you may think no one cares what you have to say, usually its just to contradict what someone else has been saying, oh, and before you say No, i dont (in so many words or less), what does that quote up there say?

oh and by the way. people that walk the street trying to get you to sign a petition you dont want to sign dont care why you dont want to sign it either, just so you know

Commodore_Mcawesome · Jul 28, 2005, 05:41 AM // 05:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanas

These are poor solutions and the intial conditions are also incorrect. These solutions have already been proposed. They solve nothing and only propogate the problem. Excessive farming is not the way forward and neither will it redeem us. It is against game design and plays havoc with the economy.

Wow, thanks for dismissing my entire post in five sentences without actually saying why I'm wrong.

Ehecatzin FlyingCrab · Jul 28, 2005, 06:16 AM // 06:16

/signed

I dont understand why some people blame the farmers as the cause of the economy problem, oh no there are bots! yes but if everyone could get the armor, weapon, rune they want by themselves there wouldnt be EBay stores selling GW money is it? plus all that Anet is doing for "the good of the game" (nerf PVE) is actually helping bots. Yes this game is about skill, guess what ANnet said they wanted to make this game avaliable to casual players, well they are achieving just the oposite. casual players cant do anything unless they go to PvP where you get ripped of if you are a casual player. If this continues without a solution I GW is going to crumble.

Hope it doesnt get to that.

Bohr Nal · Jul 28, 2005, 08:24 AM // 08:24

/Signed

I don't farm, I play and I would like some better drops for my own characters. It's sick to have fissure armor that requires 900,000 obsidian shards and then allow ME, THE MONK, The most important PLAYER IN MY GROUP, to collect all of about 2 per week... And how 'bout a nice gold sword (max of course) for my war?

I bought the game because it was an RPG, so where's the fun in an RPG that you have to play for six years to get a decent drop and then it's only one or two at most.

*Edit:*

I see a lot of speculation on economy here and some of it doesn't make sense. To say that if we all dealt with each other, it would lessen the prices at traders is wrong. Supply and demand says that ain't so. When supply goes down, prices go up. Then, the viscious circle begins. 1) People sell less to traders, 2) Trader prices go up, 3) Other players see this as well and raise their prices to just under trader value to capitalize... Self control and self-government is where it's at to fix this problem but no one has the ability to self-govern it seems...

I saw a guy selling a Pommel of fortitude the other day that gave 30 health. Within 2 mins he had sold it for 100k... 100K??? The lack of drops is what has ruined the games economy. People who cannot obtain this type of money (and there are many, I assure you) are just S.O.L. when it comes to obtaining nice items like that. When I started playing this game a max storm bow could have brought maybe 6 or 7k and that was steep... now? Rediculous.

On top of that, a max plain storm bow will only bring 52 gold at a trader... What's up with that??? It's like the game designers have almost purposely sabotaged the econ of the game themselves. I just don't get it.

Unless it's arenanet themselves selling that gold on eBay..... ?

Thanas · Jul 28, 2005, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angryhob0z

well despite what you may think no one cares what you have to say, usually its just to contradict what someone else has been saying, oh, and before you say No, i dont (in so many words or less), what does that quote up there say?

oh and by the way. people that walk the street trying to get you to sign a petition you dont want to sign dont care why you dont want to sign it either, just so you know

Yes they do care. I have had PMs off others saying they agree with me. Also I'll think you'll find this forum is a free for all. And yes I do contridict you. Mainly because I think your wrong, this is how debate works! Oh and if someone were to stop me in the street with a petition, I could say whatever I wanted. If someone pushes their PoV, it is inevitable that other people won't agree. These against comments should be absorbed.

Iceman2 · Jul 28, 2005, 08:45 AM // 08:45

/signed

after the drop rate was changed, i could barly afford the 1.5k armor. i did go do some farming beofre the nerf, and i never got any really good drops, i got good enough so that i could afford the next amor. Right now, im trying everywhere to get enough money for just one piece of the grottos armor. I had a better time before the nerf, i could find the money i needed to get the armor.